I am Toby Hall, executive Vice President and Chief Information Officer for Delta Dental of Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana. Welcome to the virtual intern experience.

As far as career goes and how I got to where I am, I’ve had kind of an interesting journey. I finished undergrad at Western Michigan University, got a degree in statistics. So the first thing I asked myself was, what does one do with a bachelor’s degree in stats? And the answer, the unfortunate answer was probably not a lot with a master’s or doctorate, plenty of opportunities, but with a bachelor’s degree, maybe not so much.

So that put me in a position to decide, well, did I want to bite off that obligation and commitment of grad school? Talked with advisors. Highly recommend that your advisors are there to help and was cautioned if you’re not in at a hundred percent, you know, maybe get yourself there a hundred percent or rethink that. And I was not a hundred percent committed to a doctorate. Stuck around at Western. Did some teaching and did some research with a professor while I tried to sort of sort it out and realized teaching, that was something maybe, maybe I could see that as a career.

So post-Baccalaureate, I went back and got a teaching endorsement, was certified for high school math and history. And so I taught math. I taught high school math and taught at a college, a community college. I was one of these dumb guys that thought all adults did this. I would show up at the high school at 7:00 AM and I would teach till 10:00 PM. That was my kind of typical day. Teach at the high school, pack up, go over, have office hours, teach at the college till about 10 o’clock at night.

I was 23, 24 and had the energy to do it. So I did that for a bit. And then, uh, looked into something to do in the summer to come back to the math classroom. So when students said, “Hey, Mr. Hall, why do I have to learn Y equals MX plus b?” I would have a credible reason for that.

I looked into actuarial internships, learned a lot more about the actuarial career, and realized that was probably a better fit for me. And went whole hog at the actuarial career. Resigned from teaching, took the entire series of actuarial licensing exams and ended up here at Delta Dental. Spent a long time here in the actuarial area arising to chief actuary.

Then the second big career pivot hit me when we needed somebody to lead an effort to rebuild our entire claim system, billing, eligibility, the full stack of IT programs it takes to run an insurance company. We were gonna rebuild that. I was asked to do that. I was kind of dumb enough to make eye contact at the time when we were looking for volunteers.

So we needed somebody from the business side to lead the business half of that project and ended up doing that. There was easily six to eight of us that could have done it. I was the one who did and ended up getting a lot of experience in the IT realm. And then we had a retirement, a looming retirement. Our existing CIO is retiring here in just a couple months. So got nominated as our next CIO.

Before I had worked in one, I had my idea of what life in an insurance company was like. I thought it was a lot of people in their cubes with their starched white shirts, reviewing claims and checks being cut, and that was about it. There’s a lot more to an insurance company than that. Pretty much you think about a business-related career, it exists within an insurance company.

We have a team of lawyers. We have a team that does marketing. We have a team that does, uh, corporate communications. We have community relations, we have people who do process claims. We have people answering phones. There’s pretty much any business-related job you can think of exists within an insurance company. It’s, in my mind, a fantastic industry to get in. Especially if, you know, you want to be in the business world, you’re not exactly sure where you want to fit in.

Interning at an insurance company would be a great way to find out, especially if that insurance company during your internship allows you to sort of pop around and experience different things.

Especially now when I went through college, I graduated college in the late nineties, internships were a thing and they were encouraged, but it wasn’t, it wasn’t approaching the table stakes that it is now. And so I think that’s sort of the, the bad news maybe, if you will, is that internships. Employers are really starting to look for those. I think college shows me that, you know, a lot, an internship shows me you can do a lot. And those are, those are two very different skill sets.

A successful internship or two under your belt makes you a much more marketable candidate. Now, I say that’s sort of the bad news is the competition is there. The good news is, and if there’s anything good that came out of a pandemic, it’s that virtual internships do exist. We can do those internships and not require you to be within a 20-mile radius.

Just in my own shop. We’ve had interns, we had one from California a few years ago, never even set foot in the state of Michigan and was a fantastic intern. So I think they’re a great way to learn those skills you can’t learn sitting in a classroom, reading from a textbook, mastering a syllabus. Those are all, those are all important things we need to do ’em, but there’s other job-related skills we look for that you can’t learn in that setting. And an internship is a great way to do it.

I think no matter what your chosen field is, no matter how you get started, no matter what that path you think is, stepping outside of your comfort zone, is one of those things that will kind of…It’ll thin out the herd a little bit.

If you could count on one hand the number of people in their twenties that had a plan and then their life went exactly according to plan, that just doesn’t happen. That’s not to say you shouldn’t have a plan. You absolutely should have a plan, but be flexible and be prepared for it to change. You never quite know what life throws at you.

You can choose in many cases to turn those opportunities down and say, “I like my current role. I like the path I’m on, I want to stay there.” That’s okay. That has some career consequences to it. And if you’re good with it, it’s good for your family and your life, then go for it.

I was looking for something a little different. I wanted a new challenge. I wanted to learn something new. And when those opportunities come along, grabbing ’em with both hands is sometimes the best thing you can do.

This is an age-old question: How do I stand out and demonstrate that I bring some value when I really don’t have any direct experience?

And some of it is in the resume process and cover letter process. Most places where interns are coming from, be it high school or college, there’s someone there that can help with career advice, career counseling, reviewing a cover letter.

Do not take your cover letter straight from ChatGPT. We will be able to tell. That’s fine to use it as a starter, but don’t be afraid to go in and make some edits. Resume tips—those are underused resources. So take advantage of those no matter where you happen to be.

And then make sure your entire value pitch in the resume, the cover letter, the interview process is done through the lens of what you can do for the company.

What the company? Yes, they’re taking a risk, but try not to come across as you’re doing the company a favor by being there. It’s more of, “Hey, here’s the value I can add. Here’s a new energy I can bring to the department.”

To me, that’s one of the biggest advantages of our summer interns: that energy level just changes in those departments in a very good positive way. They’re young, they’re smart, they’re hungry, and it makes the full-timers kind of find a new gear and think about things a little differently. It challenges old ways of working.

And I think if you can highlight that, that’s a good thing and come to that interview well-prepared. We all have our favorite interview questions, and I’ll spoil it or I’ll tell you mine: What did you do to prepare for this interview? is a great question because it gives me insight into whether you are a do-the-minimum kind of person or a go-the-extra-mile kind of person.

A not-great answer to that would be, “I found the building, I drove by it, and figured out where I wanted to park.” That’s leaning towards the do-the-minimum.

The better answer is, “I researched your products, your competitors. I know you’re trying to move into this space. An entrenched incumbent is this company, and here’s what I know about them that is wildly different and completely done.”

Say, if you’re getting ready for the interview, get some reps in despite what people tell you. Going through a list of interview questions is probably not the right way to do this. Sitting down and having somebody conduct a mock interview, they’ll never be able to ask all of the questions that your employer is gonna ask. But you can get your reps in thinking on your feet and the types of questions you’ll be surprised how quickly your brain will adapt.

And well, I’ve never heard this question before, but I’ve heard some other things kind of like it, and now I’m not thrown off my game.

So do 2, 3, 4 practice interviews. If you can get somebody to record ’em for you, so much the better. And if you get those reps in, your actual live-fire interview will be much better.

So once you’re in the door as an intern and you’re thinking about ways to stand out, the best ones I can give you are maintaining a good positive attitude and demonstrating a work ethic that fits in with the culture of the company as best you can.

And the two specific behaviors I can point to that I’ve seen from interns that have been really successful are maintaining a bit of an outgoing personality. Not to the point where it’s coming across as fake or intrusive or overly social, but don’t be the wallflower that just sits in your cube and does your work. Either make sure you integrate with the team a little bit, let them get to know you. That’s equally important.

This is, in many cases, a 12-week interview. So having that outgoing personality come across as somebody that would fit in, somebody the team would like to work with, is key.

The other behavior is: don’t be afraid to ask for work. I see some interns, you know, typically I always tell my hiring managers, if you’ve got enough work to keep an intern busy 80% of the time, it’s worth going to market for an intern. Less than that might not be worth it. But that leaves 20%, and that’s okay because part of the intern sponsor’s obligation is to plug you in and let you see other parts of the company as an observer. And that’s what I would backfill that 20% with.

But don’t be afraid to say, “Hey, I think I’ve finished this assignment, the next one’s not ready yet. What can I do? How can I help for the next half a day or day?” And go ahead and insert yourself, plug yourself in. They may tell you nothing—just go observe and attend a meeting and just kind of be there—and that’s okay. But I guarantee you left an impression that you went out of your way to ask.

There’s a couple of things they could do to take that full-time offer sort of off the table. And that’s assuming there is a full-time offer available. One would be kind of the opposite of the things that make you a desirable intern. So being very passive, I am not proactive. I want work to land on me. I’m not gonna go seek new things or insert myself and socialize with the rest of the teams.

That’s probably one way they may love the work you did for the summer, but they may pass on you. A sense of, “What can the company do for me?” rather than, “What can I do for the company?” is probably not the right way to go and not the right way to be perceived.

You’re there to add value. You’re there to make yourself appear as a good part of the team. If they think they could plug you in right away and you could contribute, that’s what you want to show.

If you’re in the door somewhere as an intern, and we think there’s a full-time offer available, you think you’ve got a good shot, it’s worth it to spend some time thinking about if it would be a good fit.

And I think the bar is set kind of low. As long as the work that you do is moderately engaging some of the time, it’s a pretty low bar. And your company is ethical; of course, they’re not polluting the environment and doing other horrible things—it’s an ethical company.

The work is moderately engaging some of the time. It absolutely boils down to the people you work with. If you, throughout those 12 weeks, think this is a team you would like to spend time with—it doesn’t mean you’re best friends, doesn’t mean you’re socializing afterwards—but you could spend your eight, eight and a half, nine hours a day with this team and be happy and fulfilled. That goes a long way towards it being a good fit.

Then I would pivot a little bit and say, okay, now we’ve crossed that bridge. It’s a good team I want to get to know and work with. Then look for a manager or signs of a manager that has sort of the heart of a teacher and is gonna invest a little bit in you.

I don’t think at entry level it’s at all too early for that. I think good managers do make investments in those entry-level people. Is it somebody who’s gonna help stretch you, develop you, give you new challenges? Or is it just gonna be a one-way distribution of work? And that’s very transactional.

If it feels transactional long-term, that’s probably not the best fit.

Internship wraps up. You are lucky enough to land that full-time job. What does the first year to two years look like?

So I would say the interview process or the internship process is an extended interview. Once that wraps up, that doesn’t mean like all bets are off and we can kind of perform any way we want. That early period of your career is still an extended first impression.

I would say it’s more about consistency at this point. We don’t need to be Olympic-level performance at every minute of every day, but we need to be putting forth good effort, acceptable to above-acceptable performance over an extended period of time.

Being seen as the steady Eddie that you can always count on is kind of the sweet spot of where you want to be during that initial phase. You’re not at a position quite yet in your career to turn work down.